Alright, well there has beena bit of a debate raging over at the control shoutbox -> http://www.radiocontrol.org.nz/site/home.php

For those not in the know, or too lazy to go and read (it is hard cos you gotta read in reverse) heres a quick catchup...

Basically for the last 2 maybe 3 years Guv'nors Tavern has been the staple Friday night venue for local originals bands to showcase their shit. During this time Guv'nors has promoted themselves as a 'Rock' venue. Now recently Guv'nors suffered several extremely piss poor turnouts for Friday night shows... this was due to a combination of the following:

a) Incompentence on the organisation and promotion front.
b) Conflicting shows with established local acts performing at other venues.

And as a result Guv'nors began looking at other avenues to bring in revenue (as any business would) and for a while it looked like the local Fridays would be scrapped... these however have been saved.

Now what is about to go on, and what was raised over at the control shoutbox was that Radio Control is going to sponsor saturday nights at Guv'nors. On these Saturday nights Control DJ's will be there doing there thing and on the odd occasion there will be live acts i.e lowkey shit like Jacob.

Now it would seem that people took offence to me voicing my opinion on this... which I would like to clarify for all those who care to read. I have absolutly no beef with Control, or it's staff... Having been a listener of 'Radmass' for about 12 years now I would never question the commitment of any of the staff, or the station as a whole, in there support of local music. fullstop! Without Control as local bands we would be fucked. If I have any beef with any of the DJ's well thats between me and them and no fuckin concern of yours, if you wanna make it yours I have every intention of crushing you mentally, spiritually and physically where need be.

My concern was that I didn't see the point in a bar actively promoting itself as a 'live rock venue' and then having DJ's performing. End of story... DJ's who mix it up like say DJ 20/40 when he does a record stack, or someone actually taking the time to mix there shit like RayRay, sure I can appreciate that... but being a jukebox... nah, I can do that at home myself, infact winamp can do it for me. Now why Guv's is having 3 radio stations doing their shit there I dunno... (The Rock advertising, The Revv FM $3 Thursdays and now Control Saturdays)

Now locally there is a huge fanbase of lowkey tunes/DJ's etc... fuck D&B is dance music for Metallers!!! And the way I saw it setting up a new 'home' of sorts for this kinda thing would have been a smarter idea (much like how Uno was for HipHop) but hey thats just me.

So yeah, starting from the beginning of May (correct me if I am wrong) Guv'nors tavern will be a multi-genre music extravaganza with "F**CKIN WILD FRIDAYS" featuring all the best live rocking bands from Palmy and Aotearoa, and "Control 99.4fm Saturdays" catering for all your lowkey and D&B needs. I hope it all works out, hell no doubt you'll prob see me there on some Saturdays but just remember to keep your fuckin glowsticks away from me unless ur gonna (E)ase my pain

-Snuff

Hey, I'm all for it.It's not like I'll be there to hear it anyway
Seriuosly though, if it means we ( Metal/Rock ) can keep fridays going and not be back to fucking housepartys all the time then thats real good.
The Valve does a similar thing in Wellys right?That place looks as dingy as ever and seems to fit visually any Genre.If it works there then Guv's may as well give it a go.
If it does draw a seperate crowd this won't boost or leach on the Bogan turn out on fridays, so me being pretty slow on it I'm wondering how much this will really help Friday night losses unless they make a fuckin' killing on the Saturdays.
So how are they/we gonna address:
I've heard talk of halving the gig amout( as in once a fortnight instead of once a week ).
Is this a possibility. It does stop stuff getting old and it does help with other gigs going on ( tummy for instance), obviously as stated by Snuff they( Guv's) are running a business here and that business is selling piss not keeping local music alive.
I've also heard shit about performer cross over which is fair enough.So were are the rest of the metal muso's in this town and why aren't they playing gigs?The Gene pool is shrinking my friends and it'll be afew years till "Hellborne: The Next Generation" are playing gigs:lol:
So me hopes we can fix turn out issues so we don't get told to fuck off!!!

This is definately a good topic for debate on this message board. I will put my thinking cap on and see if I can come up with any ideas. No doubt other comments will stimulate ideas, so everyone should be encouraged to leave something here if they do have some wisdom to share.

I think the problem with the Swamp is that it just ain't quite big enough now to support a throbbing scene. This was not the case 10 years ago, because the type of student Massey University attracted was alot more diverse than simply a rugbyhead culture it has today. Back then even the rugby heads liked a bit of "freak culture" in their lives. University was different then.... Orientation used to be a huge fucckin party for like 10 days!!!!!! Is this a trend nationally? I don't really know. It could be that "freak culture" has moved less hippy like and into a more mainstream type profile. Maybe someone at massey should do a masters thesis on it lol. I gotta say a big thumbs up to people that have really tried hard to make a difference in the scene in Palmy over the last few years. At the school band level, there has never been anymore excitement. And the support these kids are getting from within the schools shows through. There are some really good quality bands coming from the schools in the swamp district. harness this energy and encourage better things.... eg Cathedra.... fucking A!!!! Also in more recent years, with a dedicated venue to underground original music, the scene has started to thrive again, which is absoolutely fantastic. The only problem that is faced is keeping punters interested, or growing the scene by attracting new faces, so the regulars are not exposed to the "same old shit" time after time (I am not saying its the same old shit, most people are fickle about music, unless they are really part of the scene itself and support it for the passion of wanting to be there rather than just getting their enjoyment/entertainment factor). I think the key to it is growing it, but that definately aint an easy thing to do. I have seen growth in the last couple of years which is great. Can it be grown anymore? Maybe now is a time to consolidate, and start making sure punters are really well entertained. Thats my 2 cents, I think I have just talked around the problem as I see it rather than giving any ideas how to grow things or sustaiin the scene and keeep bar managers happy. these are key areas to address. One thing that would go along way to help things might be nice fliers and posters. I have seen a couple of recent ones posted here that look real cool. Can they also be printed in colour? I know the technology to do so should be getting cheaper. If someone new that might be interested sees a nice poster or flier, I think they are more likely to want to come along than a poorly hand drawn one. Everyone has there own ideas though I guess. Above all else, support each other, conflicting shows can always hurt the scene, and also cause shit within the scene. The swamp is too small to have petty politics going on, unavoidable for sure in a lot of cases.

Well I hope that whaty I have written might stimulate some thoughts or ideas. If i have any more I be sure to add them.

a) There has been a change in who is organising/promoting the shows... from now on Duncan McCann will be actively seeking out touring and out of town bands to come through and will be promoting 'F**KIN WILD FRIDAYS' (or something like that as a whole branded night kinda thing) On the local front I will be sorting out relevant support bands for the touring acts and also putting together shows for bands that have expressed interest in performing. This will mean from a bands point they will need to supply presskits/cd's etc so peeps actually know who the fuck they are and what they are about.

b) The only way to stop this is for bands to stop competing against each other... as cocky as it sounds theres no point in organising a show on the same night as say $LAVE is cos your just gonna get fuckin owned... but if people actually take the time to communicate then theres the no stopping the scene. Thats not saying don't go out and actively organise and promote your shit, I'm saying do some research into your dates before you end up looking like a dick with no people at your show and bad mouthing us cos your show sucked...

After all, its a community of musos not a bunch of savages, its better to help each other out to promote and up each other rather than work against each other, i mean were is the logic in that if you dont all work together then everyone misses out...im just rambling haha lol

I don't think Palmy folks have changed all that much over the years...perhaps the organisation of events has fluctuated at times but that can be expected anywhere. Folks in the swamp still like music, new music and original music they just often don't know its happening, or feel comfortable at gigs, thats from the people I talk to.
Getting new people along to gigs is the key to creating a real thriving scene and having a strong commitment from those organising shows to putting on quality entertainment for the new peeps that come along.
To make people feel comfortable at a place where they feel that they don't belong is a trickier dilemma, the so called rugby heads in Palmy often really appreciate new music, particularly rock music, and according to massey surveys at the start of 2005, they also really like dance music. Why they don't go to the gigs organised is more due to the 'sheep' syndrome than anything else I think, they want to go to a place that looks like its going off. If you have 100 plus in a room more will come in just to be part of the party.
Guvnors has been committed to local music for the past couple of years and it has strengthened the local scene. There are lots of improvements needed in the organisational aspect of the guvnors gigs and I think those are underway. I also think that sometimes inside the scene we get blinkered about how many folks out there would like to see the shit that's going on. Six degrees of separation and word of mouth works. If you tell people in different groups get them into it and they get their friends to go along as well it becomes a bigger community and a more thriving scene.
Heaps of people stay at home on fri/sat nights because they don't think anything is worth going out for, changing that perception is the biggest challenge of all.

I strongly disagree with this point...... The people themselves may not have changed but the sheep factor definately has. I will use orientation as an example once again. 10 years ago, every night went off, and this lasted like 10 days. They also used to put a big fuck off tent up on the other side of the events centre (then called the social hall) to expand its capacity to cater for more punters for the larger shows. Over the last few years, when the popoualrity of new Zealand music has risen, the oreintation crowds have gotten smaller and smaller. I know that rugby heads like new music, most people do. But the university vibe of the "freak culture" doesn't appeal anymore, I blame the reduction in the Arts department a few years back as one of those contributing factors. I agree with this point. The people that organise gigs and events are pretty committed to what they do. Afterall, they don't really get anything out of it for themselves, apart from an audience for their band or what have you. However, I think the organisation has catered for a select group in many cases. Persoanlly I think Guvs is a shit hole. At the moment, because of the lack of good venues for live music in Palmy, Guv's is crucial for the scene. Palmy really needs a kick ass venue for live music. The Albert in years gone by wasnt perfect (now its a pizza outlet) but it did provide a room that held a 200 people crowd with the bifold shut or upto 300-400 or more with the doors open. The acoustics were ok in there as well, although would have been alot better if the roof was higher. The swamp lost alot when it lost the Wild Horse. That was a cool place to do rock'n'roll. Since then we have really been making do, Pacifica cafe, then Harvesters. The stomach is also a cool place, but only really caters for the kids well. Most grown ups feel the need to drink alcohol when they are out at gigs..... I am one of those. Again, the tummy aint an ideal venue, if it was a little larger I think it wwould be alot better.

I guess the problem the bar owner faces, is that they only make money if the money comes accross the bar in exchange for that lovelly nectar we call alcohol. This is a problem here in New Zealand where the population is so small. the shows I have been going to here, the doors open like 30 min before the bands start, and the emphasis isn't always on selling alcohol. Kids are allowed into many of the shows I have been to, obviously not allowed to be served the nectar. Every show has been sold out, and the venues get a cut off the ticket sales, and this cut proobably goes along way too paying the bills, the bar is bonus rather than necesity. The population base here drives that kinda buzz, a luxury the swamp doesn't have.

dribbling a bit arent I.

you want to grow things...... you have to get people excited...... I think production is the key..... good PA, good lighting = good vibe and good time. Also in a place where women feel comfortable. If the women come the boys will follow. The music that is played in the swamp, is a male dominated domain, particularly now that metal seems to be the bigger genre at this time. The women need to feel safe etc. I know the guys John at Guvs is really sad... are the ladies any better??? Most people want to feel comfortable...... .getting back to the point above about production, I think it is time you guys started charging more for the gigs. How long has the gig been 5 bucks...... as long as I can remember..... I know it was 5 bands for 5 bucks ever since the tummy has been around, which must be close to if not beyond 15 years now. Inflation at say a conservative 3% over that period of time brings that to $7.78. If you charge $5, people think oh its just another crappy swamp gig. If you charge $10, people might get the impression they are going to a show..... so put one on, charge a little bit more and see what happens. Thhe first one, might not make a big bundle of notes, but once the word of mouth thing gets going, then you might be in with a shot. Captain relaxo man is right, word of mouth does work. Also good fliers and posters, and lots of them, also goes a long way. I have witnessed this first hand... I organised a gig years ago... Filthy Business, Slugfarm,Pushkin, Wholesale drainage, vargus greel..... same night as shihad..... we had 300+ puntyers, the cops shut us down.... DShihad had 110..... We amped the fuck out of our gig, more cos we kknew we had to cos of the threat of the other gig. We triumphed.... we were all smiles . The tummy can still be the avenue for $5 gigs, for kids etc, as it is supsidised.....Fuckin good luck with that...... He never got orientation going, infact the downward spiral (NIN-lol) started when the McCanns were the campus arts personel. Pretty transparent of a council employee (I make the assumption he is still doing it), hiring his crap sound system to a venue that he is also booking bands for, that is also in line with the type of work he does for the council. He has never been interested in the scene. Watch out is all I have to say. If I win the lottery I will buy a venue lol. Only open for gigs, no cover bands, bottled beer at $2 a bottle lol..... stomping PA and wicked lights . at least people would be able to afford to get juiced up in the pub so the support bands enjoyed a crowd as well as who ever was headlining.... ok time for me to shut the fuck up lol.....

Its obvious, this is a last chance thing to keep Guv's open for original music extravaganza's. I would be actively looking for alternatives for new venues for a number of reasons......

We have maybe two venues in NP, The Basement Bar and The Mill. With the new smoking laws (and the large percentage of smokers in NP music community) you can lose half your punters as they wander out for a ciggie/joint. The punk community has fallen on hard times here with just a small stalwart crew of Musos keeping the dream alive. The metal community is in slightly better shape tho ya get the 'other' metalheads not going to shows unless one of their bands is playing.

The Basement Bar is a reasonable venue except for the rear door to the toilets thru which the upstairs normos can get in (why the fuck don't they secure it with a doorman? I can't be evrywhere at once...roll on Cloning.....)
and they give ya free Coka cola (TM) if yur in the band..woowoo...better than a kick in the balls I guess...

The Mill...errr I only go there for gigs which are few and far between, they do give ya beer (a rider) if ya ask nicely sometimes. Frankly I can't stand the place....fuckin bouncers acting all 'hard' and the 'no camouflage rule unless your a girl' fucks me off.

The Christians won't let us play at their all-ages hall ( I wouldn't want to play there anyway but the other guys bands could do good off them), even tho one of their bands plays with Horror Story every now and then. Frankly I don't care for Christians...I just want their crowd...hehehehe. I've told the DN guys to suss out all-ages shows but.... ..what the fuck would I know?

Roll on my LOTTO win...Then y'all can play at 'SLAPPYS BAR AND GRILL'. Same as Gappmans...2$ beers, cute barmaidens wearing viking helmets, bouncers witn sociology degrees....huge ass 'SMASH THE FAS' above the bar....

You know I hope you guys are actually buying Lotto tickets... then we can do a continuous gappmans/slappys tour...

Ohh yeah, I even won some money once...

I'm just off to get my retirement fund ticket now.

Who runs the Stomach? I've never ever been there...

The Stomach is run by Creative Sounds Soc. Inc. which is funded by the PNCC.... and yeah, Te Puku totally fuckin owns!!!

www.creativesounds.org.nz

I remember a guy from the Shihad gig coming down and giving us a fatherly piece of advise to bail out cos he thought we would get smoked. How wrong he was.

Two things contributed to the success of the gig and the scene we were building/part of,

One was promotion - No one told us (Gappa really) that you couldn't put on a show with almost no budget on the same night as the biggest band in NZ - so we just went ahead and did it. At the time we had worked hard to build a big group of supporters of the bands through a series of great shows. We also had bands active in promotion. You got out and activated yr networks. There was no turning up to play after someone else (or no-one) did the promo work. Each band would have some leaflets posters etc and they would be giving them out to mates, sticking them on peoples fridges etc, etc. You wouldn't have gone to a party and not seen a poster up, if you did you soon squared that away.

The second was the semi arogance we had towards the way things were or the way they were supposed to be. We just went out with a concious attitude that we would do our best to put on a big show. Not turn up and be too cool and too lifeless to entertain. We acted like the big bands in waiting. Of course the limited budgets etc meant that we could fall short of our goals but the intent was usually there. This isn't a bad thing. Our role is to entertain - we are the modern Jesters. If we arn't putting on a show, giving people that 2 hrs off the bullshit in their lives, then we may as well stay at home.

There has been a couple of specific things raised in reguards to solving our problems. I will make a short comment on those and add a few of my own.

1) Raizing prices is something that we have tried several times before and the reason its doesn't stay at $7 or what ever is you get less people along.We desperately need more cash in the scene and I agree that a price rise is way overdue but don't think a prise rise will do the job yet. When we get good turn outs the bands do ok for cash at $5. If we a getting good turn outs then we are doing better promotion and putting on better shows. Maybe we have then earned our $7.

2) Better gear is like truth speak. At Guvs you get a PA for $150. It has many draw backs but you can't get a better deal. With a good engineer you can make the thing sound ok. I think a few more big shows with a McKinnon can happen in the year though. Bands could help out by getting better gear themselves and sorting their shit out live so that things sound good. So many times I've had some fuckwit complain at not being able to hear when the've got their amp cranked through the roof. Remember it's not a fight for control with a sound guy but an agonistic relationship.

3) New venue. Again truth speak. We all bitched about the horse and then we lost it and now we look back longingly. The venue in the real world is better than the one in yr head. Guv's is serious about supporting gigs, lets help them.

4) Promotion - Street leafletting is bread and butter work for anyone building events but it doesn't happen. A couple of teams on Saturday would fully make a show. Collective postering - why not have a Wednesday postering mission and cover the whole city. We can all go out together and not have to fight for space and cover more areas. And if you are playing make sure yr band is active in building the event.

5) Be bold. Basially if it's gonna happen it'll be because we go out and make it happen!

Cheers!

See yous at swamp fest.

my 2 cents, well i agree with gappman, when i started at"radio massey" lo, those many years ago,there was by far and away a bigger "alternative" scene, and music scene.

Or at least that is the impression i retain thro the hazy mists of memory.

But, unfortunatly, that kind of mixing of cultures has dissappeared over the years, which IMHO may not have been that beneficial to maintaining that vibrant culture.

Yeah, we bitched about the superliquorman closing, about the horse, about pacifica, about harvies, but the fact is, the music scene IS NOT about venues, its about the poeple, the bands anf\d the music, and we shouldn't lose sight of that.

Regarding gapp's comment about the rot of the mccanns, you're right comrade.

From a 2 week extraveganza, to the pitiful shit it is today, the rot started there.

Ask yourself, when was the last local music gig duriong orientation??

who culled those shows originally???

Not that we can expect anything more from them (MUSA) next year, not if they keep the dropkick who turned the femmes down (now how fucking stupid was THAT?)

anyway, we have a venue that is prepared to support us (but it has to be vice versa) which while it may not have that nostalgic, just kick that dead rat of the way, home feel of the horse, still is trying to do the bisnesss.

and that has to count for something.



nige

I remember that well. Too bad Slug Farm only got to play half a song! A triumph is a triumphs all the same.