It was recently suggested to me to make $lave records work more like a collective. Rather than having poorly attended meetings etc or just a 'select' few making the decisions, we could use the Forum and Polls (possibly a seperate section) to decide what $lave should be doing and what projects we should do. In that way everyone involved in the collective can have their say and we can hopefully work more as a collective.

What does everyone think?

The idea of a seperate section is a good one, and one that I have looked at in the past however I don't seem to be able to work out how to make specific areas available to certain users... in saying that it doesnt mean its not possible.

Decision making and the likes have no place on public forums.

I can't remeber, as I havent been there in ages but does Fight em Back use the same forum engine thing as us 'cos they have a locked section????? I don't know shit about shit, but thought I'd bring that up.

If that is so perhaps if you/anyone knows admin there they could ask and scratch a back or something.

Its a great idea. I'd love to know what is gong on over there with the development of $lave and that...I have alot more time on my hands than when I was there, typical.

I'm with Murray on this. If, of course said technology is able to be harnessed for the greater benefit of the almighty $lave empire.

We should meet early next week sometime to discuss this new direction.

A lot find it easy to say on the internet what they can't in person, and I think it's important to be able to operate on a human level as well.

My suggestion is one night next week at the Stomach?

sounds good

I say Messanger for informal meetings, not to informal, but for run downs, and disscusions, etc.Post a time on the forum and then we meet on messanger, simple.

my
two
cents

I'm also thinking maybe we should have a seperate treasurer(poss 2 people),
web administrator, moderators, and possibly other roles, and that only one person can fill each role. This could ensure it "physically" remains a collective,
I don't think we need any director type roles either, easier to work together if we are all on the same level.

I'm not saying what you said is good or bad but the thing is how many of us are willing and more importantly will KEEP UP using their free time, between work, family and most importantly bands to do this.

If one person slacks the whole thing can go pair shaped real fast.
Also when in this we must all ( outwardly at least,) 'tow the party line'. We can't even make up our minds what we want between us,let alone if people get radio/newspaper interviews we all seem to say Slave is something different.

I agree we do need a bit of a reshuffle, but to say that we don't need a coordinator is a bit rude and perhaps foolhardy. Not only does it seem to shit on all the leg work Snuff has done so far, but it seems almost suicidal not to have a coordinator. Yes we can all have an input,share responsibility,and it is simple , when making a 'collective' such as this, to write into the charter that the coordinator has to put all relevant desicions to a vote.

I may seem like a cunt but from a nice safe distance from ground zero, this whole issue seems to be moving way to fast. How about a first a tally of people who are seriously willing to give up time ( and $$$) and secondly a list of who Slave actually IS. A list of who votes......Who does it represent? The Bands or the musos?, but what about the people who want to get involved with art or photography? I just think we gotta open up abit.

Sure, seperate people for promotion ( preferably a non band member to stop in advance any comments of favouritism) and cash and what ever, but I believe we still need a helmsman. NOT ME FUCK THAT. We have to have direction. With out a small board and helmsman we all will be pulling in different directions. For example if we want more pull into gigs we need good out-of-town bands, ok usually bands make the hook ups, but if we want to put on a show as a collective who chooses. When Rogue State start playing ( not to far away at this point YEEHAAAWW, I'm counting the months) we'd want a more electronic band or goth, where as Hellborne would want a metal band or two, and Black Chrome would want a punk band.
If we want a true collectve we have to put all this sort of stuff to vote, or we must delegate. But we can't every five minutes something doesn't go our way bitch and moan.

I believe, who ever is in control of whatever people are going to cry unfair. It doesn't matter that at the moment Snuff is in 'control' of most of the stuff, in my view as I haven't seen any attempts by people to raise their hands to pick up some of the work load. I remember when I was still there, having trouble finding pepole to go onto the door when my set came up for christ sake. 30+ minutes of sitting, drinking,and the occasional 'hey, you have to pay man!'. If thats hassle, who is going to pick up an extra 4 hours aweek or so?

I know this is getting long as but at this stage what Slave has physically -most of it was done by the 'Director'. If it means ( for example....example!!)Black Chrome gets in the paper or someshit more than me so be it. I like having a web site to bitch and moan on.

This is not directed at muzz but all of us.But yes we definatly need a closed forum for this sort of shit.

I am seriously considering PM'ing this post all who I know are Slave instead of posting it on the forum, but then I'd miss afew and that ain't very democratric is it


Look I could go on for days, but I won't. Just I hope everyone will put their money where their mouth is and haul arse. Hence I aint saying I want much responsibolity at all, I just want to drink, write songs, get even drunker, record them, have some more booze and play gigs.

I think the forum voting would be a good idea but it would only work if there was select group of voters as anyone could sign up under 50 different profiles and corrupt it.

I agree with rob that you do need some sort of helmsman for co-ordination. Maybe even a group of three or four 'directors' to eliminate the 'boss' stigma.

well this will be short..... lol first time for everything right rob (notice the nautical malarky in your post you priate you!!!).....

well my 2 cents.... I'm not really a part of $lave, so I don't really have much of a say. I have been around a bit though, I am observant and I have some advice. I love the idea of a collective, but I really think that $lave is now at a point of development where it needs to get a little more serious about its structure n(this is true if its members are arguing about it). $lave needs a constitution, and some sort of governing body that accurately represents what $lave is all about. You do need some sort of "Helmsperson(s)", and I think wankstain's suggestion of having more than one is right on the head of the nail..... the boss stigma ain't gonna be good. Take a look at Creative Sounds.... that is a collective.... look at the structure there, and think of how it could be improved on for the good of $lave. Its merely a starting point, but I think a good one to start from. I like how the "general membership" and "voting membership" structure of creative sounds is put together, and this came about when people were thinking of things in a very collective way. You need to establish where to draw the lines as far as who is going to be a member of $lave. Are you a member by default cos your band is on the label? Or are you a member by default simply by registering to the forum? COuld $lave join forces with the tummy... an umbrella group to that perhaps? and basically borrow som e of the paper work... might save a whole lot of work in the long run.... Just an idea, mayube a stupid one lol....

The $lave community is small, and unless people are really willing to do a whole lot of work, one or two motivated people will be doing all the hard work (this happens in all community based groups), and it will look like they are doing it for themselves based on the success of their own ventures that may also exist under the $lave banner. This is, in my opinion, due to the motivated ones actually wanting to step up their own shit, so their other ventures also succeed. It does not necesarrily mean that they are using $lave for their own success. In all likely hood without $lave, their success would be equal, so $lave should actually be happy with the association of the ones succeeding.

Ok I go now, and may add some more soon. Sorry long day today, I had a date and I cooked her dinner..... it it was all good .... oh and my folks arrive for a 5 week stay tomorrow.... so my head is in many directions right now.

lol maybe this post is longer than I thought it was gonna be

Look here for info about private forums...

http://www.phpbb.com/support/guide/

As far I can see, to have a private forum for $lave collective members, you'd

1) Create a Forum
2) Set it's simple permissions to Private [Hidden]
3) Create a usergroup "$lave Collective" or similar. Set Snuff or similar to be the group moderator.
4) Set the usergroup to have access to the Private Forum
5) Snuff adds all the collective members to the usergroup

And now the collective has a place that it can talk about the rest of us behind our backs, and do heroin deals in private. At least until the next hack for php2bb comes out!

Well thats kind of what we did when we first started, hence why both myself and Max are signatories on the $LAVE account... And why Ashley was dealing with legal side of it blah blah..
Yeah that always cracked me up, not once was I EVER approached and asked by anyone if I needed a hand.

Lets be perfectly honest, the idea of a 'collective' is a romantic one at that... using Creative Sounds as an example sure there is a treasurer/secretary etc but we all know at the end of the day it's Craig doing most of the fucking work.

I find it pretty humourous that no one had a problem with me spending hundreds and hundreds of hours over the last few years promoting bands that I don't even necessarily like. It's been kinda like I've been baking a cake and everyones keen as to have a piece, but all of a sudden its nearly finished cooking and everyones having a cry cos it's the wrong flavour!

Well its time for some more fuckin chefs to step up!

So heres a little something I prepared earlier...
This wasn't an easy decision, so I'd appreciate if you wanna talk smack PM me.

looks like its all gonna go to the shitter now!!!!!!! Just wanted to say in 'public' Jimmy, you have done a whole fuckin lot for the swamp, so to see you leave under these circumstances kinda sucks. I know you will do well in the future, you got that drive/passion and intellect to get shit moving forward. All the best Bro.....

GAP

no I don't think so


Yeah cheers for everything Snuff